Fantasy Sports in India: Gambling or Gaming?
Alaukik Shrivastava is a legal scholar and Assistant Professor at Nirma University in Gujarat, India. He joins us here to discuss the fascinating and fast-growing industry of fantasy sports. India has a notable legal approach to gaming versus gambling. The line between games of chance and games of skill is a fine one, and it's something that regulators are struggling to get on top of.
We have discussed in previous episodes how open-access gambling can be very harmful to society. But there is also an argument that leaving it to the black market means players have no protections and the state cannot benefit from what is a significant economic engine. Alaukik brings his vast knowledge of the historical, legal and cultural aspects that have led to this point and makes a compelling case for undertaking a thorough critical review of the rules of each new game, before casting judgment.
Also for reference, please see links to X-Bet/X-Bat and a fake Indian cricket league for Russian gamblers stories.
Episode 36 Transcript
[00:00:00] Ben: Welcome back to the sustaining sport podcast. Today we are joined by Alaukik Shrivastava . He is a legal scholar and assistant professor at Nirma University in India. And in this episode, we are discussing the fascinating and very fast growing industry of fantasy sports. India has a really interesting legal approach to gaming versus gambling.
The line between games of chance and games of skill is a fine one. And it's something that regulators are really struggling to get on Long time listeners of this show will know that I'm pretty anti gambling. But of course, it's definitely not as simple as a blanket ban. Fortunately for us, we have an expert on this matter.
Alaukik does a truly wonderful job of unpacking all of this nuance and trying to give us an indication of what the future of a better sports gaming industry might look like. I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did.
Welcome Alaukik to the Sustaining Sport Podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Why don't we start by you just giving us a little bit of a background about yourself and how you got into this field.
[00:01:13] Alaukik: So my name is Alaukik and I'm an assistant professor at Institute of Law, Nirmal University here in India.
And I primarily teach criminal law, and I'm into gaming law as well. So my PhD thesis is on online gaming in India. the need for development of a comprehensive legislative framework for laws regulating online gaming here in India. And so I was before entering into academics I was practicing as a lawyer in the high court of Gujarat.
And then I came across a case which dealt with the legality of poker here in India, whether poker is a game of skill or a game of chance and whether it can be offered. at several clubs here in India. And I happen to be one of the petitioners arguing for, from the side of one of the petitioners.
And that is where the primary interest in relation to gaming law came by reading more about it and by knowing the nuances of gaming and then realizing that as an industry, probably online gaming has a lot of potential. So I submitted my research proposal at the Gujarat National Law University.
To pursue my PhD on the very same topic because and then I switched over to academics full time joined as an assistant professor at Nirmal University and since then I've been primarily interested in online gaming and it became one of the key research areas for my academic pursuit.
[00:02:30] Ben: Absolutely fascinating and that's how I came across your work was through some of the papers you've published on that. Why don't we start then with a bit of a brief history of betting regulation in India because as you said there seems to be this differentiation between skill games and luck games but then what there's a blur line in between so if you could tell us a little bit about the history of that.
[00:02:50] Alaukik: Do you want me to delve into the legal history of it or the cultural aspect of betting here in India? Because I think the cultural aspect has a lot of role to play when it comes about, development of a legal framework that we have in India.
[00:03:01] Ben: I think both, please.
[00:03:03] Alaukik: In India, primarily betting and gambling is considered to be a serious issue.
In fact, considered to be a vice and several of the manuscripts that you couldn't see probably the earlier manuscript Hindu manuscript as well. And in even the different religions that we follow, where you will find that betting and gambling has been looked down upon. Some of the examples can probably be the mentions of betting and gambling as a vice in the regrets in the other way, the Katyaini Smriti and several other manuscripts.
Culturally, we are a country wherein we don't want people to be investing a lot of money in betting and gambling because we see that essentially as a vice that would lead to the downfall of Not only the person who is involved in gambling, but also the family members would be equivalently affected by that.
And that has a very big role to play in the legal development here in India as well. The earliest legislation was the public gambling act of 1867. So India was still under the British rule at that time. And then there was this public gambling act, 1867. And more particularly to note is section 12 of the SED Act, which exempted the application of the act on games of skill.
Now, what that did basically was created a distinction between games of skill and games of chance. So games of skill was being allowed to play it in India and games of chance when offered for money or any kind of a stake was not allowed. And that was as per section 12 of the act. Public gambling act because the public gambling act was made inapplicable to game of skill altogether.
So that means the application of the act remains on the games of chance. So this is where the whole distinction started in relations of in relation to game of skill and game of chance. Now public gambling act was basically a central level act, but interestingly, betting and gambling is a state entry under the Indian constitution, which came into force in 1950.
So in 1950, betting and gambling found its place in entry 32 list two of the seventh schedule of the Indian constitution, and that gave power to the state governments of different states, for example, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Maharashtra, Gujarat. So the state governments were now interested to create a legislation on betting and gambling and anything in relation to betting and gambling.
Now, most of these states adopted the public gambling act of 1867 were batting. But there are several exceptions to it as well. So for example, Nagaland has allowed games of chance for being offered for money as well. In Goa, offshore gambling is allowed. So all of that has to do with the fact that, these states consider the money that they get out of gambling to be an important economical resource for that state.
And that is why there have been several exemptions in relation to several games of chance being offered. For money or stakes in these states, but majority of the Indian states, almost 20, 25 of them still does not, permit games of chance being offered for money or stake. And they would allow games of skill even so games of skill for being offered for money or stake.
So that is not a problem in the Indian states. So this started with 1867, then 1950 created this distinction that, the state governments would now be empowered to create this regulation on relation to betting and gambling. And then moving on, there were several judicial pronouncements, which I think I'll hold on to it for a while and then probably, deal with the judicial pronouncements a little later, but this is where the roots of the whole debate started.
And the clear understanding is this. That games of skill, if they are being offered for money or stakes is completely legal in India. But if it is a game of chance, if it is being offered for money or stakes, it is considered to be a gambling, which is one of the criminal, which attracts a criminal law statute as well.
And it's prohibited in majority of the states.
[00:06:53] Ben: Excellent. And thank you for your precision on that, because I think that's so important when we discuss how certain companies are getting through, that it's important for us to know the legislative background on that. And you mentioned the game at the start, poker, but the other one I would like to raise is specifically in the context of this episode of these fantasy sports apps, which there is debate around whether it's skill or luck.
So could you talk about, if you want to talk about your work on poker, I'd be interested in that, but then specifically this rise we're seeing in India of fantasy sports
[00:07:22] Alaukik: gaming. All right. I think I'll move on to this question through a little legal background as well. So in India, there came a case called as K Satyanarayan.
Which basically talked about the fact that Rummy is a game of skill now if Rummy and this case was quite early I think it was in the 1960s that this case came in and then Rummy was being permitted to play and the court considered the Supreme Court considered Rummy to be a game of skill and Then they listed down several factors Which made it a game of skills.
So for example the fall of cards, the initial distribution of cards is essentially chance based because no one knows as to what card would they get, but subsequently building upon the cards, discarding the cards, memorizing the cards, all of this thing, and the element of bluff as well as to how do you bluff the other persons?
How do you make sure that what are the tells of the other person? All of this, what was considered to be essentially the skill that a player demonstrates. And then this judgment laid down the foundation. That, several card games can be within the ambit of games of skill. Subsequently, after Rummy, there came a challenge on poker in the case of Dominos, Dominance Games Private Limited, which is the state of Gujarat.
And very interestingly, the first case on fantasy sports platform was in relation to Dream 11. The name of the case is Varun Gumber versus the UT of Chandigarh, wherein the court considered whether Dream 11 is a game of skill or a game of chance. Now, this is a very famous, for those of you who don't know, Dream 11 is a very famous online fantasy sports platform here in India.
And the betting primarily takes place in the game of cricket. So people make their own fantasy teams, cricket teams, and then subsequently they invest certain amount of money. I'm deliberately using the word invest because the court later on decided that, online fantasy sport platform and specifically dream 11 in its current form is a game of skill.
So people invest their money in that and then they anticipate a written in relation to that. Now, after that after the launch of dream 11, there has been several fantasy sport platforms that are now popular in India. Specifically in relation to the game of cricket and then football as well. And then, the spectrum of games that are there in the online fantasy sports platform, it is, getting increasing day by day.
So India has this huge advantage of population. And I now think that, a lot of these companies would want to invest in a market like India. But in they'll get a lot of online fantasy sport users here in India. The rise has been exponential to be very honest. And we see now people from all ages.
People probably below the age of 18 as well, investing their money in games like dream 11 MPL games, which are all fantasy sport platforms, which are popular here in India. And then they expect the return out of it in relation to the legality. So dream 11, I do consider dream 11 or, any other fantasy sport platform to be a game of skill, but it completely depends on the rules of the game.
And I think a proper determination in relation to the rules of the game is important for it to be categorized or classified it as a game of skill or a game of chance. If you just ask me Very generally as to whether fantasy sport platforms are a game of skill or a game of chance.
I have no answer about that, my answer would be that first we need to scrutinize as to what are the rules of the game. And after a proper scrutiny of the rules of the game, probably one can determine whether it is a game of skill or a game of chance. So yeah, that would be my take on it.
[00:10:57] Ben: Yeah, that's very interesting. And I do think it's a difficult question because I've played some fantasy sports in my time, mostly where there isn't a financial investment at the start, but I still think it's a difficult one where if you're at the top of the league, you maybe think to yourself I'm doing really well.
I, I have a better analysis of the players. I know which ones to pick, there's that element of skill, but then of course, If someone wins because a particularly bad player ends up scoring a load of runs, you would argue that's probably luck, like no one expected that. So it's a really challenging distinction to make, if that is the distinction that we need to make.
And I also think that, it makes it difficult when the investment is much more frequent. So I know on some leagues at the start of the season, you put in a small amount, you put in whatever it is, 5. And then you go the whole season with just that. And that's, for me, just seems like a, almost like a ticket ticket to play.
Whereas from what I understand with dream 11, you can basically do that on every game. You can say, at the start of every game, you put another amount of money. So then it does start to feel a bit more like a casino,
[00:11:58] Alaukik: yeah, absolutely. And in fact, even during the duration of the game, you can change your teams as well.
So now there are several online fantasy sports platform that allows you to do that, to change your fantasy sport in between the game as well. Fancy fantasy team in between the game as well. All these rules are very pertinent. So for example, earlier in dream 11, they allowed picking up of a cricket team at the time of the toss.
Before the toss and the actual team was announced during the toss. So that means you would pick up a fantasy team of your own choice Before actually knowing as to which players would be playing on that particular day And let us suppose if you pick up a player who is not playing on that day, then it becomes impossible for you to win it.
Now, this rule essentially made the whole converted the whole game into a game of chance because which player would be playing on that particular day is essentially chance based, right? Because you would pick up the fantasy team on the basis of the skill of several players. You will pick up the 11 most skillful player if it comes to the game of cricket.
And then at the toss, you find that, the most important player, the most skillful player that you picked up is not playing that game on that particular day. So they changed that rule. They have also tweaked that rule. And now they allow picking up of team after the announcement of the team. That is why I essentially argue.
That understanding the rules of the game is absolutely important in relation to determination of the fact that whether a game is a game of skill or a game of challenge, without that, you just cannot do it.
[00:13:22] Ben: Yes. And I always think cricket's been quite vulnerable to outside influence when it comes to betting, essentially, because you can bet on so many things that are not specifically the result.
And the one I will reference is Hansi Kronia was one of the great South African cricketers, but his career was essentially derailed because he got caught match fixing. And I think the reason he thought he could get away with it because it wasn't necessarily match fixing the result. It was number of no balls or, something like that, where you can essentially, give some outside influence a market without necessarily throwing the whole game and arising suspicion.
So cricket seems to be quite a useful sport for that.
[00:14:01] Alaukik: Got it.
[00:14:03] Ben: Talk a bit about, obviously, everyone I think knows that cricket has a great Role in, in Indian culture at the moment? Talk about maybe the fact that it was this fantasy sports rises existed in the cricket ecosystem.
[00:14:15] Alaukik: Yeah I think fantasy sports in India is primarily popular because of the growth of cricket in India and the fact that, almost all the individuals here in India, see, we consider cricket as a religion to be very honest.
And cricketers as our God. And what happens is that everyone wants to, be a part of the game in some way or the other. And these fantasy sport platforms gives you the opportunity to do exactly that. And that is why I see a lot of youngsters, people below the age of 18 minus, someone who is 12 or 13, his age is 12 or 13, creating a fantasy team of its own, his own, so as to get some money out of it.
So I don't think so that the primary expectation of such a player. Is to get money out of the whole game, he starts viewing himself as the manager of that team. Now that is very important because this has a psychological impact attached to it. The minor who is picking up a team is not only picking up the team to get a financial benefit out of it, but also he relates to the fact that now he's managing the team and then he would want that team to perform well on that day.
The rise of cricket in India and the popular and the way it is popular here in India, I think both these factors has a lot to contribute to the growth of online fantasy sports here in India, because if it were not for cricket, I don't think so that online fantasies platform, a sports platform would sustain here in India.
And then subsequently they went on to other games like football, hockey, basketball, for example.
[00:15:39] Ben: Yes. Fascinating. And let's actually jump into that. Do you think it might be undermining the authenticity of these sports? As in, do you think maybe people are now watching because of their fantasy team rather than their interest in the sport?
Or is it somewhere in between? I think you've just referenced a positive element that could come out of it, that someone, feels like they have ownership of it. Yeah. But then maybe you could say that there's a negative element that it becomes a purely, it's all about the fantasy team.
And if you're not putting a fantasy team that week, then you don't really care about
[00:16:06] Alaukik: the sport. See, currently I don't see that happening because of the way we perceive cricket here in India. I don't think that people would want to watch the whole match just to make sure that the fantasy team is, winning that particular game, but then again, in the near future, I think we can't predict as to what would happen right now, people would watch the game altogether just because of the inherent interest and inherent love for the sport, and I think that is very important and that is something which we need to preserve.
So being said that I think this the onus is now on the fantasy sports platform to create a perfect balance when these platforms are being, viewed as. An avenue to manage a team to get something back in Britain, while on the same time, not compromising on the fact that the in and out of the sport is equivalently important to the user as well, because it is in their best business interest.
That, people who are interested in the sport would keep on investing the money in the platform as well, or else the number of users of these fantasies sports platform would also go down. So that is why both the things have to be equivalently managed. And I think the onus is on the fantasy sports platform as well.
When it comes to that.
[00:17:18] Ben: Yes, very interesting. And I'm reflecting on when I watch a game of football, for example, with some of my friends, there is a high likelihood that during a game, whatever game we're watching, maybe it's a Premier League game, one of my friends will be there because they've put a, they've put a five pound bet on whatever team.
So that's like a direct bet. That's not any, we're not blurring any lines. That's a bet. And obviously in where I live, gambling is legal on that, but then there'll be a lot of my friends who, someone will score a goal and they'll be like, Oh yeah I've captained him in my fantasy team or something like that.
And you can see that extra level of engagement that they maybe wouldn't have otherwise had. So I think you're right in saying that. It may be, can be a benefit to the game rather than a hindrance. But then on that, do you think the sports regulators and the teams have a role to play in this?
Cause I know that dream 11 was sponsoring the IPL. So they've obviously realized that there's a potential for themselves to benefit as well.
[00:18:09] Alaukik: Yeah, I think both the sports regulator and the teams and, the fantasy sports platform, all of them have a very big role to play in the growth of sports here in India.
And I think there has been a consultation between all these stakeholders to be very honest, because. All these stakeholders are working in tandem to make sure that the growth of the sport is not being compromised in any which manner. So we see now that, Dream 11, MPL, these are all fantasy sports platform.
They have sponsored Team India, the current Team India that we have, the Indian cricket team for that matter. And we see that these people now have a set of regulation of, so they are self regulating themselves. So very interestingly, India has several organizations such as the All India Gaming Federation, which comes out with a skill games charter, which comes out with its own rules and regulations to ensure that the game remains a game of skill, because they want that online fantasy sport, sports platforms are projected as games of skill, because if it is projected as a game of chance altogether, or it is actually a game of chance.
Then people would eventually lose interest in investing money in such games. And at the same time, it would be detrimental to their business model as well. So several self regulatory organizations have been created here in India and they have created their own set of rules and regulations for all these fantasy sports platform.
And the major fantasy sports platform that we see here in India are following and abiding by these rules. So this is very fascinating because there is no, comprehensive legislative framework to govern these fantasies float platform here in India, apart from the public game gambling act, which was there in 1867 still applicable.
But, it really does not addresses the meat of the issue and it really does not, it was never made for, online gambling, online gaming and things like such. It was primarily made for offline gaming, very importantly, this self regulatory model that India is adopting, I think that has a huge potential and a still a long way to go and it might, it should have a legislative backing.
That is essentially the argument that my thesis also had, but I think this is a very good step forward to ensure. That the inherent love of the sport at the same time, the business interests of a fantasy sport platform, and the fact that the player does not lose out on a game of chance, all these three interests have to be, clubbed together, stitched together, and then there should be a balance between all these three things.
And I think the teams. The fantasy sport platforms, the regulators, all of them have, equivalent roles to play. Even if you see one of these charters, skill game charters, that is propounded by, AIGF, All India Gaming Federation. They have given this onus on the fantasy sport platform themselves to ensure That, financial accountability and transparent transparency of the money that the player is investing is ensured by these fantasy sports platform.
So this is interesting, and this is very peculiar to India as a jurisdiction. But in the self regulatory model of governance of online gaming is on a rise, and that is actually the near future that I can see that the Indian gaming industry would be moving on to.
[00:21:12] Ben: That is absolutely fascinating.
And I think speaks to the nature of sport often where a new idea of how to play or a new piece of technology comes along. And it's quite important that the rules. stay paced with that, but it can be quite difficult. And I think when it's a sort of one size fits all top down approach, you can often end up suppressing or killing it.
What is actually a good idea. So there's almost bottom up way of organizations realizing what's the best for their sport. It's so interesting. And yeah, I think, as you said, quite unique to India in this instance, but maybe something that a lot of other jurisdictions around the world can learn from because yeah this rise of these fantasy sports is only getting more and more, and I think sometimes they are being used in the wrong way to yeah, fully just I guess the word would be to fleece the to fleece the consumer and that leads me onto my next question.
Do you think there's any. risk of overuse or addiction or any of the other things you see in, in maybe conventional gambling.
[00:22:13] Alaukik: Absolutely. I think we just cannot neglect the fact that there have been several instances here in India wherein people have lost money on online gaming and gambling, and then subsequently committed suicide or, took several harsh steps and more specifically when it comes to minor players who are below the age of 18.
And in the news report all over India, there have been several reported incidents in relation to addiction of online gaming and the perils of online gaming altogether. And the effects have been felt all across India. And that is why it is becoming a matter of huge concern as to how do we regulate online gaming or should be whether should we regulate online gaming or whether we should ban it all together.
And this would remain a constant debate all in, almost all the jurisdictions there in India. So there have been several instances to be very honest, but at the same time, I think that we should not get overwhelmed with the fact that, there have been such instances because if it is a game of skill and if it is being offered for money or stake, it should be allowed.
To be played because at the end of the day, it is also the fundamental right of the company and the players who would want to play that game to, to have an access to such a game. And I think a complete blanket ban on online games altogether being offered for money. Is not really the way ahead and is not really where we should be, going that being said, We are actually not going towards that direction But there are a lot of scholars and a lot of people who would still argue that there must be a complete Blanket ban on online gaming being offered for money altogether.
But at the same time we need to understand that, Addiction is one of the Primary reasons as to why India is a little hesitant in developing the industry of online gaming altogether. And the answer lies in responsible gaming, which is also something that, a lot of these online fantasy sports platform are promoting.
I've actually written about responsible gaming as well. So we need to create several thresholds in relation to, the amount of gaming time, let us suppose, or the amount of expenditure that you doing on online gaming. Vis a vis the amount of, income that a person has. So I think several such rules are the need of the hour and it needs to be, made as fast as possible so as to make sure that the ill effects of gaming or gambling altogether are, reduced in India, but we cannot have a complete blanket ban on gaming altogether.
[00:24:31] Ben: I think that's a strong argument. And I think this is why your work is so important. And I think this is why these conversations are important that people don't treat these things as completely one way or the other. There is some happy medium that we need to find here and talking of course, if you were to have a blanket ban, that would open up the opportunity for completely unregulated black market companies to, to fill that space.
Could you maybe talk a little bit about how. Some of those companies are already operating because what I understand is that because there is the regulations, which you mentioned at the top of the episode, there are offshore companies that are trying to access normal betting markets in sports betting markets in India.
Can you speak to a little bit about those?
[00:25:13] Alaukik: Yeah, absolutely. So I think there are several companies and, several people, they have access to these betting websites through, VPN or some other mediums altogether, and they are still doing it. That has two disadvantages.
First is that it creates a circumvention of the law altogether. And the primary purpose as to why we created a ban in the first place, The purpose behind creating a band would not be served altogether. And second, India would be losing out on a lot of, money through taxation on these online gaming platforms, let us suppose.
So I think these are the two very important reasons as to why a blanket ban might not operate. Simultaneously, it would give rise to a lot of counterculture measures. Because people do want to gamble, people do want to game and then at the same time if we create a ban altogether, the essential human instinct is to, do whatever they feel is necessary and whatever they feel they want to do.
And hence it is important that a blanket ban is not imposed because it would give rise to a lot of these situations that you already talked about. And I've mentioned in my speech as well. So I think the correct way would be regulating it. And I still believe that, the legality of the game should be there.
It should be a game of skill, which is being offered for money or chance. If it is a game of chance being offered for money, then I think there should be stricter regulations in relation to it, but we must have a clear stance as to what do we want to do right now? The biggest problem that we are facing is that we don't really understand as to what do we expect from the online gaming industry altogether.
The government website itself says that, they want foreign investment in the field of online gaming. So that means that they expect investment in the field of online gaming. They see it as a very, potential industry for generating a lot of income. They are trying to attract foreign investors when I say about that, but at the same time, the amount of taxation that they've imposed on such companies in accordance with Indian standards it's quite high.
So it is 28 percent GST that they will divide goods and services tax. Which is considered to be a higher slab of taxation. And highest slabs of taxation in India is imposed on industries and companies that you do not want to promote that. There is this inherent contradiction between the stance of the government, to be very honest.
And it is important that we have a clear standards in relation to gaming and gambling as to what do we want to do with it. And then create a cogent framework in relation to the fact as to how do we want to go about it.
[00:27:34] Ben: Yes. And I think we've seen this already in the sports betting market where there's probably a few examples, but the one that comes to mind was that there is that company XBet and that they were advertising themselves within a couple of nations around cricket, but they were calling it XBat.
[00:27:50] Alaukik: Yeah.
[00:27:51] Ben: P A T. And then you would Google them and it would be a news website. But then actually, if you Googled it, the first prompt would be, did you mean expat? And it was the same, like they were owned by the same company, which was located, I think, in Cyprus or Curacao or something like that. So even where there are regulations, these offshore companies, we'll find a way in essentially.
[00:28:10] Alaukik: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[00:28:12] Ben: Can, could you speak to a little bit about what kind of regulation there is around avoiding match fixing, because I remember reading a few months ago, this fascinating story, I believe it was in your state in India, where essentially a bunch of farm workers had been paid to play a fake game that was being televised.
And some, I believe some Russian company was facilitating the betting on that, because they realized there was this interesting demand. They might have even been like, pretending it was the IPL to an unwary consumer. What are the rules around match fixing? Cause I imagine if there's a lot of people who have picked a certain player in their fantasy team, that implies a certain incentive that player could maybe you know either throw their performance or something like that in order to get some financial gain.
What's the reg, what's the regulations around that?
[00:28:59] Alaukik: In relation to match fixing. So India has had a very ugly episode in the nineties. But in several of the key Indian cricket team players were, identified as people who have been involved in match fixing. And it came out of several telephonic conversations between people and the police intercepted that, and then k they came to know that there is this whole involvement of the, in fact, one or two South African players were also involved during that scandal.
And recently in 2014 one of the. Sporting teams of the IPL was also alleged to be, have to have been involved in match fixing. There has been introduction of several bills such as the Prevention of Sports Fraud Bill 2013, but not none. None of them has been formulated into a law together.
There is also a very interesting report by the Sports Law and Policy Center of Bangalore, specifically on match fixing, and they have ex extremely good propositions to offer, to be very honest when it comes to match fixing and regulation of match fixing in India. But till date, the legislative framework is quite weak.
And it is still being governed by conventional laws, such as the Indian Penal Code. Right now, it's being replaced as the Bharatiya Nyaya Sahitya 2023 because India has had a major grip overall in relation to criminal laws as well. But, proving match fixing is extremely difficult because For proving match fixing, you need to prove the intention and then simultaneously the act of match fixing.
And whenever it comes to the prosecution of match fixing, we find, through several cases here in India that it has almost become impossible to, prove match fixing here in India. Because even if the, when the app is.
[00:30:31] Ben: Hello, listeners, this is Ben in the editing mode. At that point we actually lost a lock X audio because the electricity went out at his end, which is a big shame.
Fortunately, we only lost about a minute and he was coming to the end of his point. When he did come back on, we were running a bit short on time. So we just asked one final question, which took a bit of a time for the audio to catch up to that question was, how does he see himself in the future contributing to the space?
So I will leave it off where he says that he thinks it's important to be in the space because it's growing and. It's just
[00:31:04] Alaukik: going, growing. And at the same time, there are a lot of socioeconomic considerations to be taken into account when it comes to a country like India. Yeah. Specifically in relation to the fact that the amount of money that, young players are investing in online gaming.
And the ill effects of it is very important for us to consider the ill effects of gaming all together. So I see myself as, one of those people who would want to advocate responsible gaming, to be very honest. And at the same time, I see that, there are several intersections of gaming with different fields and dimensions all together.
Which people are not really talking about here in India and which is of particular importance as well. So there's an intersection of gender and online gaming as to how online gaming is, highly gendered. So I think these are the areas I would want to, move on in the near future.
[00:31:53] Ben: That's excellent. And yeah, I really wish you luck with that. And thank you so much for your time today. It's been such a pleasure hearing hearing all about this. Thank you so much,
[00:32:01] Alaukik: Benjamin. Thank you so much. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you.