Uganda's Sporting Crossroads: Navigating Fairness and Practicality in a Changing Climate
Ugandan sports currently grapples with a complex network of interconnected challenges, including severe financial constraints, persistent mismanagement issues, a significant talent drain, and the undeniable impacts of climate change. The question is: how can their sports improve and develop talent without further contributing to the climate crisis?
Diving into this question with us is Sharon Muzaki, a budding environmental journalist and sports fan, in Kampala. Of course, such a discussion begs the subsequent question: is it even fair to expect a nation, that has contributed so little to the climate crisis, to include such considerations into the sporting growth model?
There is no simple solution, but, speaking from both lived experiences and observations, Sharon gives us her preservative which informs a much better understanding of the problem - a problem is crying out for further consideration from the relevant stakeholders.
Episode 33 Transcript
Ben: 1:21
Welcome, Sharon, to the sustaining sport podcast.
Sharon: 1:29
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you so much, Benjamin.
Ben: 1:33
You're so welcome. How did you get into this space of sustainability, and particularly sustainability and sport?
Sharon: 1:40
When I did finish my university in 2019, after I got done with my bachelor's degree. I have been someone who has been watching football, to be specific, for some time with my brothers when I was growing up, so it has always been my interest at some point. So after university, I did join the local sports here, where I was doing some writing but basically doing the social media work with. The website is called Football 256, which was covering the local sports around. So as time went by, I did join the climate space after doing my very first environment training in 2021. So that's how I got to connect with climate and sport, so I do understand both.
Ben: 2:35
Very interesting. It sounds like you almost took both sectors independently and now you've brought them together, which is really exciting.
Sharon: 2:42
Yes, I did take them independently At first. I started with I actually did presentation at some point on TV. That's how interesting it was and I'm really so much into football so it's just so interesting that I'm a bit busy that I try not to put so much. You know, football is the whole thing. It can really take you up because of work here and there, but I really do understand that sport has been football, to be specific. With others I do know I follow here and there, but with football, especially the European football and the UK, Interesting.
Ben: 3:20
So would you say you're more of a fan of European football compared to, like, ugandan football?
Sharon: 3:26
Yes, now that the Premier League, the Liga, the Ligue 1 really does take me up at some point, but still, I do follow the Ugandan sports. Once in a while I do attend the football events, especially when we have also our big clubs. Surprisingly, there is the KSA for the Kampala Cactus City, there is Vitas Football Club, so when those two are trying to go, when they're having a match, it is always interesting to come around and watch.
Ben: 4:08
Now that makes sense. So then tell me what is the state of sustainability in sport within Ugandan sport, because you said you're still attending matches occasionally. Do the teams have any understanding of their impact? The fans think about it at all?
Sharon: 4:25
I will strongly say no, not at all. I cannot tell you that if we did ask the president of Puffa that is our football body I do not think that at some point he has even thought about it. So I will strongly say no. Maybe if I do back up I can tell you no, I do not think they really do understand the whole topic.
Ben: 4:50
And what do you think the best strategy would be to try and raise awareness for this kind of thing or encourage people to think about their own impact and the impact of their activities.
Sharon: 5:02
I think that if you're an independent NGO and try to partner with this, you know everything starts with awareness trying to come around and sell the idea and really try to inform them of what is going on in the country, going in and around the world. So I think that is when maybe they would take interest, but I haven't seen any event of a sort or an idea. To be honest, when you look at Uganda, basically the Ugandan sport at most is still true I don't know the word I can use to describe it we are polluting the environment, or maybe we did have a sports stadium being constructed in wetlands or training ground, something with a sort. But Uganda, as Uganda, the country you can imagine we are doing coasting of our football clubs outside Uganda, sorry, football matches. So that shows you the level we are at.
Ben: 6:07
And what do you think the big issues are? I mean, you just mentioned a really interesting one around like the wetlands and where sports infrastructure is constructed. Do you think that's the biggest one? Is it maybe travel? Because I think definitely in European sports, the travel is the most unsustainable element of it.
Sharon: 6:24
It goes back to the leaders that we do have. I think they are not paying rotation to eat, but I have seen football matches in Uganda, here them flooding and they are failing to play and they have cancelled so many matches because of the floods in Pampala here. So it shows you that the effects are there and they are really visible. But it goes back to our leaders. They are not just paying attention and for other reasons, being political, that all this maybe will just be passing by. They are there. They are not just paying attention to football pitches though flooding, meaning it is in a space that wasn't meant to be there.
Ben: 7:13
Yes, that's an absolutely fascinating point that they are choosing to design stadiums or pitches or anything in places that are not only not suitable but then subsequently very vulnerable to climate change consequences.
Sharon: 7:29
Yes, because in the climate change training that I've had and on the waterfront, if you ever reclaim a place that is not meant to be used for any other thing, at some point the water will already come back because that is the place for its lodging. So the effect will not be visible there and then, but it's a recurring thing.
Ben: 7:57
Yes, no, I agree. I think that's a very good point. Do you think it becomes an issue of budget, as in if there was a bigger budget, they could build better infrastructure, or do you think it is just maybe short-sighted decision-making or people trying to make quick decisions?
Sharon: 8:13
With what I know is for far is an independent body. I will not say it's the budget. Yes, the budget side is only that the government allocates the less funds. They do say the funds are allocated to them. The budget is never enough, because I can tell you in Uganda, here you will have a football player earning less than I don't know how much a dollar is in terms of fund money. But okay, let me just take it in general that if you did an interview on one of the footballers having playing from one of the leagues below you know they are this first team that will take months without being paid. So that is why I can tell you that in African football so many footballers do run away to go for we call it pro football, all professional football in search for a better job or a better pay outside, even when they are not ready, because at the end of the day they do end up there and fail the tests. Then again they are forced to be back here so they go prematurely.
Sharon: 9:35
So I will not say it's the budget thing, but the government here hasn't given a lot of attention to the sports here. We have our Uganda cranes failing to go for matches because they do not have funds. So a month back we did have the chic cranes that is, the football team, going for a sport in South Africa that was netball, and they are being stranded at the airport. So it really shows you how Uganda, the Ugandan government, because if it is full fight it is supposed to be in touch with the government. So I do not know whether it's the embezzlement of funds within the body and things are not moving the way they are supposed to be conducted. So there is negligence of the government and the people that we do that work in this body that takes the sport around Uganda and not is doing the right work.
Ben: 10:36
So many interesting points you raised there around national bodies, embezzlement fascinating and unfortunately it does not seem to be uncommon across African sports. I would like to come back to, maybe, issues of corruption in a bit, but let's start off with, as you described, the players. What do you make of most of these players? I have noticed this particularly in women's football, that they all go to the, at least from Southern Africa. They all go to the USA if they can, because that is where the money is. Do you think that is a problem in the long term for the actual country itself, that these players go overseas and of course sometimes they come back, but sometimes they don't or do you see it as just a good way to improve the sport on someone else's resources? I guess?
Sharon: 11:23
Yes, we have seen boxers, those doing the boxing sport. Not only the boxing sport, but there are so many of them. When they do get the chance of going to the USA, going to the UK, to those countries, that they feel they would get a better pay or a better life ahead. You know, the next thing you hear is a report or in news this player has disappeared from this country. You know, they leave the camps so early and they get to just seek refugee. Such things have been going on.
Sharon: 12:03
By now so many have disappeared from USA, from Germany, from all those countries that they feel they can get a better pay than Uganda here. So there are so many and all that goes back to poor management this side and a lot of embassies, of mental funds. You know, because, as sport, the way we see the players in England and wherever from countries like that, how they are being paid, to be honest, for a sports person should be doing better than me, but you'll find a sports person here and me and ordinary Sharon doing some work. I'm better than the pro footballer here. So that's how it ends up.
Ben: 12:48
Yes, and those players you mentioned who've gone all over the seas, do they ever come back, or do they send money back or anything? Or once they get a way out, they often stay out.
Sharon: 13:00
Of course, most of them never look back. The only player I have seen I'm sure you know him if you follow the bit of Ugandan sport he's called Denso Nyango. That is the only footballer that I've seen who is trying to come back and he's trying to do it from his village. He has a football academy that is trying to come up, but to be that is the only person who has tried coming up and trying to say that oh yes, maybe I've earned this from this country. I can come back and develop my country.
Ben: 13:37
And that's frustrating because of course the overseas country inevitably then benefits from that talent, maybe down the line, and I've even seen it happen across generations, and the example I give he comes up on this podcast a lot. But D Valkariegi, his dad was Kenyan and his dad moved from Kenya to Belgium to play football, obviously settled there, had a child in Belgium, and then D Valkariegi now plays international football for Belgium. So that's a big shame. Yeah, for the talent pool, I guess, but on the other hand, of course these overseas countries do have the infrastructure and the coaching et cetera. But then it becomes a question of how do we improve that situation in Uganda?
Sharon: 14:20
Exactly, exactly, yes, the point we just mentioned. There are so many African players in Belgium there are so many. Even in Colombia. Here we have the Sanchez from Tottenham, hottispar, there are so many. So, at the end of the day, in Uganda, here I'm telling you the fact that so many players have failed the test, even with a child, that you will see who has the talent. But once they leave the country to just go to the nearest, they would not take a full season there. And even if they took a full season, not so many will be playing. Because for you to show that, yes, you have the talent and they can be able to use you, you should be playing on the first team to have to prove that you know what.
Sharon: 15:10
I know this, but here we do not have the infrastructures, the treatment that either you see the players outside getting. It isn't here. So it is upon a player to take care of himself. I have my brother who is a goalkeeper. He was a goalkeeper from one of those that we see that there were big clubs around here. So he got to get a knee injury that needed an operation, but I can tell you it took him one year of not getting operated and now it is a family his family that took care of the surgery treatment. So it shows you that if they are not doing the basics, I do not think they will even think of sustainability, climate change, to be honest.
Ben: 15:56
Yes, and I was going to come to that point actually. Next, I mean, in a world where it does seem like there's a lot of corruption going on at the highest levels, but also a lack of money filtering down to the, as you say, even the salary of players across many sports, what hope do we have to incorporate certain sustainability protocols into the way we do sport? I can't imagine you're very optimistic.
Sharon: 16:21
I think that this all should come up. How can it even be possible or how can it happen? We, with the reporters. Now, like me, if you start tapping a few of those topics, it creates a way and you know, most people do not know the importance of generalists. You know, you do go write a story, go for an interview from someone and they do ask you now you're writing this. How is it going to help? So my answer to them already is you know, every time I come to your office inquiring of something or why this is not moving on, well, of course that is already a way and it is already an indication of, yes, maybe you're not doing something right or you need to wake up and do this.
Sharon: 17:08
So I think it should start from us, the reporters, which not so many, by the way. Many are doing the sports writing, but of course they are doing the usual reporting on football. They aren't looking at this side, so they are not so many. So I think it should start with the reporters. Of course the government should come in. We have the bodies of climate change and whatever, but you know they are focusing on the other side, but it should start with ordinary we, the journalists and maybe the NGOs, but not so many. You know so many different NGOs are looking at different climate change bits, so I think it is really hard. It will take time.
Ben: 17:54
No, and I think you've made a wonderful point there that journalists are so often undervalued, because, of course, in a state where there is likelihood of some kind of corruption in our embezzlement, free, independent press is literally the last defense you have against that kind of thing. So credit to yourself and credit to your colleagues for trying to speak about these issues, or else no one else will. So let's continue to talk about the sustainability and sport intersection, comparing it to sort of European football. What I mean by that is do you want Ugandan football to look one day like European football? Do you want it to be that scale and that magnitude, or do you want to? Just maybe? Maybe you just want to watch European football and you don't mind about the Ugandan football as we alluded to earlier. Or maybe is there a third option? You know some kind of unique way of Ugandan sport. What do you think?
Sharon: 18:46
about that. Of course, I would love to have my country, because the pride of having your country participating here at the biggest stages, it's a heart-taking thing. I have seen countries now like Senegal, rwanda, here. It is not having a lot of players in the European section or the USA, but just the innovations that are coming up as a government body having the best run of the jazzy of ASNO, psg, you know. So, having your country up there, you know it creates a lot of opportunities for your players. But I would love my country at some point having the biggest stages. It is so ashaming I do not want to use the word language, but that is it. It is what it is.
Sharon: 19:33
You know, of recent, we did host Algeria. We did host it from Cameroon. Can you imagine, instead of having it to the nearest country, that can be Kenya, because Kenya is better than us. Or have it in Tanzania? You know they are now having a better infrastructure, they are having better stadiums. And now Rwanda I don't know whether you have been to Rwanda they are coming up with the biggest. One of the biggest stadiums will be in Africa here. So if you cannot take the sport near where we can travel, we are the fund and you are putting it outside East Africa, you know. So I would love to see my country at some point having those better infrastructures. And the only infrastructure we have here in Uganda is called Namole Mandela National Stadium, and what I hear and what I read in news, it was given to an independent person so that it means an individual can do anything and anything. If it means paying to access the stadium, it means it will be privatized. If it means there is a match of this kind and now let me say we are hosting Nigeria here it means we shall be charged a fee that an ordinary person would not afford to get a watch. You know. So those are the challenges that will come in with privatizing things. So, yes, I would love to see my country at some point somewhere there. You know, sometimes I do make funny posts on Facebook and the feedback from the public is really so bad. I can be honest. If you can imagine that even the public is so happy to hear that Uganda has lost a match, benjamin, that's how bad it is, because it is frustrating. The whole process has been frustrating. People are not accessing the stadiums, they are not accessing the events. You are hosting them out of the country. You are spending a lot of money whereby we are not seeing improvements. We are not seeing anything.
Sharon: 21:36
Coming back to our coach, who is now our coach. He is my friend, I can tell you he is my friend, but we have had so many of the coaches and now this coach, when he left, before they brought him back, he was complaining that he took the entire time. He was not being paid. So even the body itself has failed to pay the coaches. The cranes who have been in South Africa was complaining. You know the press that's spinning him down how he is not doing a good job. Maybe the girls are not performing well in South Africa, but this is a man who is selling you. A coach is selling you, taking months down the road. I have never been paid, so what do you expect from such a mentality?
Sharon: 22:18
The last time we were in Africa because now these are two years of us not being there the last time we were there, that was 2019. Yes, I remember covering it online and there is a certain amount that they promised the players that, if they do well, because that was one of the in a long time that we left the group stages and went to the quarters and I can tell you that they promised them some amount of money, that when you do well, you know those promises give the players the love and you know for them to play with all the energy. And at some point I don't know really what happened they didn't pay these players and they failed to turn up for the training. But they have a very important match and Senegal beat us. It was only money who beat us that very one goal and of course we're knocked out. So it all goes back. There is a lot in Uganda. We say there is a lot of Kavyo, kavyo is a lot, and I go there and you know yes, no, and you phrase it very well.
Ben: 23:22
So now you've talked a lot about the international game there and I think you've made such good points. Do you think the same same argument applies to the club level, like would you rather see Ugandan players go play club football overseas and then come back and do very well for the Ugandan national team, or would you like to see a strong club league in Uganda as well?
Sharon: 23:43
Yes, you just think I'm very something that I really know I have. At my understanding, on what I've seen, players that are actually here do perform better than the players that go outside, that go overseas. Why the players that go overseas do not have playing time. That is number one, and coaches have kept in these players. We have one player. He's now in Motherwell and so this is a player who has never been here. So this is a player who has grown up from the UK but of course he has the Ugandan name, he has the Ugandan descent and now he's been prioritized.
Sharon: 24:31
A hand of players that are here. You know we do not look at our own firsts before we look overseas. Yet players here that are here come, grown here, do better when some are playing, especially when we have tough competitions. So I feel players here should be given the opportunity. And now there is this. Actually that very player, mugavi. Okay, there was a campaign of tourism here and he's on billboard. Yet a player here doing well at KCCA is not having that chance.
Sharon: 25:07
So players also do not give in their all. Of course they are not. You know they are not prioritized. You get my point. They are not prioritized. And others who are outside the country are being prioritized. They keep bringing us players that we have never had, though, instead of giving a chance to the children we have. So, at the end of the day, they are also like you know what we are moving out we are going overseas to maybe we will get chance to be. You know, for us, we have this in our mind that if a player left Uganda and went outside, maybe he is being exposed to better equipment, this better experience, but we have never seen that difference. I can tell you. I have not seen that difference on the level. We keep losing, keep losing. So that is the whole point.
Ben: 25:57
Yeah, I think they have done something similar in South Africa, but they have actually changed in recent years. It was a long time there were South African players playing in the English 4th Division and then they would come play for the South African national team. I am thinking of, like Dean Furman and those kind of guys. But then what they have realized was that, particularly in, mamalodi, sundowns was so good at South African club and then when they started playing overseas, they were always playing in the African Champions League. And then even I saw this year it was quite amazing and obviously they had to raise money for this.
Ben: 26:26
Somehow Mamalodi Sundowns were touring the Netherlands in pre-season and I was like what is that? A South African club, an African football club, pre-season touring overseas against the Netherlands or Dutch clubs. That was very interesting and maybe a sign of things to come for African sport. I think this is what Mamalodi Sundowns have realized that the better way to do it is actually to maybe bring in some of that expertise internally, no overseas, and bring that expertise to, in that case, south Africa. I remember their argument for going overseas to the Netherlands this year was that there are different styles of football played over there. That might be another reason behind your point that those overseas players play. Perhaps worse is that there is a certain style of football they are playing in Uganda. If this Ugandan player has been playing in Austrian 2nd Division and not getting a lot of game time, that's not going to translate against, for example, saudi Ammanee or something when you play Senegal. So very interesting.
Sharon: 27:31
I did meet a gentleman from Sengo and he can tell you what Sadio Manu is doing in his country, why these are a few of the players that really did allow to come back home and say, no, let's play for our country, let's do this, so it gives some pride at some point and he's really doing well. I can tell you he's doing well, which is not so common, and I think because they are in countries that do access those opportunities and they have really worked out with them.
Ben: 28:05
Yeah, but I think there's a different level of player there. They always talk about Drogba giving back to Kotevoa and all of this, but the Manay and Drogba were so good, they were at that level that they could afford to, whereas I think a lot of the players we've been talking about today they make some money overseas, but they don't make a huge amount of money overseas, so they can't give back as much, or at least they don't feel like they can.
Sharon: 28:29
Exactly so. If a player the farthest point that our player maybe has ever gone from Uganda, that should be Turkey. Yes, there are some people who have tried going to, but they have really not made it first. So they end up coming back home and with nothing. So most of them now do end up in the same bar in Tanzania, so there's nothing much because of the sport that was for developing in Uganda. So if the best are not being made, I don't think that's a sign of football. The whole side of it will even be thought about.
Ben: 29:12
But that raises me. I think we've got two final points to touch on here. The first one is what do you think about that growth of the game? Because, of course, as much as it's amazing to look at the Premier League and to look at the European Leagues and say, wow, those are so spectacular and there's so much infrastructure and there's so much resources and talent, they are also very unsustainable. The carbon emissions of those at that level of sport is exceptionally high. So do you foresee a way that maybe Ugandan football could grow, but obviously not in the same way? Because if every country in the world had a Premier League-sized sports league, sport would be even more unsustainable than it already is now.
Sharon: 29:55
No, that can really just answer no. Why? Yes, I would love it to grow, but if it is growing to that level, of course it should put measures. Uganda is one of the countries you know, we are in the tropics, but at the rates of climate change, how it has affected this country, I can give you scenarios. I'm working on a story about the flood from the Nile, from the Nile, Benzin, and I can tell you things are occurring that we had never seen. So I would love the sport to grow, but with measures, with being aware of what is really taking place.
Ben: 30:39
OK, so let's just quickly knock off this last question. We've talked a lot today about maybe growing Ugandan sport, but obviously not with such high emissions, and obviously there's a very big argument that we need to completely reduce the amount of impact, the environmental impact, that European and American sport has. Do you think all of this is fair when it comes to Africa? Because you know, historically Africa is responsible for so little amount of global emissions, yet it is on the receiving end of all the things you've already discussed today flooding, etc. Do you think this is fair? Do you think that Uganda should even have to reduce its environmental impact? What do you make of that?
Sharon: 31:20
Exactly, just like you said, the African countries. We are not so much of a polluter. Maybe the wrong things we are doing are just a few. We are doing the wasteland reclamation, just the poor disposal of the pollution. But I think it's not fair. This whole thing really stems from where you are, because people do have the biggest technologies. So all these environments like football, you have the biggest industries, not so much in Africa, in Uganda to be specific. I think it's not fair, but still it does not take us away from being responsible or even the little that we are doing that is bringing all these issues. So it is the whole balance thing. As the whole side of the European side doing its own thing, we should also look at the side of looking at, of taking care of ourselves. I think that's how I can phrase it.
Ben: 32:31
Yes, I think that's very well phrased, because I personally feel very guilty even discussing these kinds of things with a lot of institutions, organizations and representatives across sub-Saharan Africa, because I know that they are responsible for so little in terms of the actual global emissions.
Sharon: 32:51
Exactly. So just something small. When I was doing my gym session I was talking to that gentleman. He works with an energy I'm not sure of the name, but the organization is energy-based. So I was asking him what his opinion is, because I know I'll have in this review about the African sport and he's asking me you know, I do not think we do have that big of sports here doing the pollution, having a lot of carbon emissions. Actually his argument was no, we are on the receiving end, just like you stated it, but of course it doesn't take a way that we are not having the effect of climate here.
Sharon: 33:35
Of recent in Bali, bali District, you know it's just one night of it raining constantly and it swept the whole town and people died. You know how it starts raining from 3 pm and in the morning you'll hear that this kind of nabah has died and really people passed on in running waters, especially these ones who are coming from nightclubs. So we cannot take away from the floods If we train in Kampala. Here there are some roads. You know this is a place that we have constructed so many buildings in places that we are not meant to be built in, you know, because of the urbanization and all that stuff. So we cannot do that with a carbon emission. And of course, it does not take away that we are not feeling the impact. There are so many things going around climate change, the water rising levels on the Lake Victoria, the River Nile, you know, recent, these bridges where all the waters were rose to the extent that so many people were drowning, so there is all that. So it can't take away that we are not having the effects. They are there.
Sharon: 34:42
But it is upon us doing the right thing, you know, when they say, start away from the river banks 200 meters, so why not do that? But so many you know. Let me say we are African. Because I'm an African, I was doing an interview the other day because I'm doing this story of floods. I will share the link and see what. You see what I've written. And the head, the head of the head, people, the local government, are telling this. People have gone back, you know, and when something hits again, you know that we are again crying. So at the end of the day, even with ordinary people, do not help ourselves. We should do the right thing, and not so many people are aware of it.
Ben: 35:26
Yeah, that's interesting, and I wonder if what you're describing there is actually going to start happening in places like the UK or other parts of Europe and America where the impacts are becoming visible. For so long, climate change has been something that's happening somewhere else. But you know, there's always talk at the moment about how many Premier League stadiums, for example, will be underwater in 20 to 50 years because of rising sea levels, and as those things start to happen, people get more aware and maybe get activated to make changes. The problem, of course, is that it is usually too late.
Sharon: 36:00
I have not seen it in Europe, but I've seen football at the end of the day complaining, saying even in the UK, here they are complaining that the pitch was different, it was raining and so the effects are visible the whole world. I can tell you there is no country that isn't feeling it. I was talking to some friend with Coration and she was sending me pictures of a storm that I didn't did you hear of it. There is a storm that swept off recent and so many people lost their lives. You not raise lives there, just breaking up and hitting houses. So it is everywhere. So it is upon us, as countries in different capacities, to do the right thing.
Ben: 36:43
Yes, and I think that goes back to what I asked you before is that, although Uganda has a very low impact on the global emissions, it still has some agency, it still has some control over itself. So any action that it does take to reduce its impact on the environment is exceptionally admirable.
Sharon: 37:04
So, at the end of the day, asking the right thing whereby I've just stated that the government and the sports board here has no clue. I have noted if there was an event of awareness about sustainability in sports, I would have known and I would have told you that at the moment it's unknown.
Ben: 37:27
Well, that's a great note to end on. And, of course, sharon, if something like that does happen, keep us informed and we'll be waiting for your feedback with Bated Breath. But yeah, thank you so much for your time today and thank you for coming on the show. I really appreciate your insight.